Sai Baba EXPOSED!

17 June 2006

Incest Affair Confirmed And Concluded

As I flick through Love Is My Form in a serial manner, I failed to notice the spread dedicated to Sai Baba's parents on page 58, which offers us the following information in clear black-and-white print:

"Ratnakaram Pedda Venkama Raju, born in Puttaparthi in 1885, was the oldest son of Kondama Raju and Lakshamma. He grew up to marry his paternal cousin, the fourteen-year-old Easwaramma. Soon, the couple was blessed with three children - a son, Seshama Raju, and two daughters, Venkamma and Parvathamma."

It goes on of course, but it's nice to note that we find a reference in print to Sai Baba's disturbing incestuous origins. That too, in devotional literature.

Throughout this debate, we have seen ridiculous arguments put forward in defence of Sai baba that ranged from defending incest by posting Biblical references, to actually claiming that incest is a frequent and common affair in India. Not to mention the fact that, leaving aside the moral abhorrence of incest, it is not illegal.

I'd also like to mention the resounding success of the incest articles; Guruphiliac had something to say, and also the fact that all the articles were picked up and redistributed by pornographic spambots and are most probably placed in numerous incest porn indexes. You won't find me complaining about the free publicity no matter where it comes from. ;-)

In any case, here's what a colleague had to say after reading the article:

"Sathya Sai Baba always - no matter my feelings of deepest devotion - seemed by any token to look pretty odd weird to me."

Say no more. This conclusion has been reached - there are a number of things that are odd and weird about Sai Baba, his incestuous birth being just the latest to be exposed.




Copyright © Sai Baba EXPOSED! 2005-2007. Discuss this post!

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9 Comments:

  • From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incest

    in·cest
    :

    1. Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom.
    2. The statutory crime of sexual relations with such a near relative.
    --end of snip---

    The marriage you are talking about is:
    - not illegal
    - not forbidden by any local customs or by Hindu religious practice
    - is a proper practice even observed today
    - couple of generations ago, it is a very popular practice in rural Andhra Pradesh state

    Per dictionary, it is not an incest relationship.

    If you disagree with me, pls be specific.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 03 July, 2006 21:35  

  • Just for reference, here is the response to Beast-Master's other points as registered here:

    If you want to define everything with a dictionary, I suppose you'll agree that sex (for example) is nothing more than:

    1. The property or quality by which organisms are classified as female or male on the basis of their reproductive organs and functions.
    2. Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, of this classification.
    2. Females or males considered as a group.
    3. The condition or character of being female or male; the physiological, functional, and psychological differences that distinguish the female and the male. See Usage Note at gender.
    4. The sexual urge or instinct as it manifests itself in behavior.
    5. Sexual intercourse.
    6. The genitals.

    So which definition listed above do you think describes sex as we know it?

    Similarly I am not concerned with the legality of the parents' marriage and nor am I concered with what were the "proper" practices, it is an undeniable fact that incest is morally abhorrent.

    By the way, what do you mean that cousin-marriage is not forbidden by Hindu religious practice? Perhaps you are not familiar with the Manu-smriti (Laws of Manu) that states, among other things:

    "He who has approached the daughter of his father's sister, (who is almost equal to) a sister, (the daughter) of his mother's sister, or of his mother's full brother, shall perform a lunar penance. A wise man should not take as his wife any of these three; they must not be wedded because they are (Sapinda-) relatives, he who marries (one of them), sinks low." - Manu-smriti 11.172-173

    Pedda Venkappa Raju indeed went against Hindu religious practice by violating the above Law of Manu. He approached (let's not get technical here) Easwaramma who was the daughter of his father's sister.

    By the way, how about the fact that Venkamma (Baba's sister) married her uncle, Easwaramma's brother?

    By Blogger H.H. Swami Saiexposedananda, at 04 July, 2006 02:12  

  • ...Ananda,

    1.

    "..By the way, how about the fact that Venkamma (Baba's sister) married her uncle, Easwaramma's brother?.."

    BM> Again, this is a *normal* practice in rural Andra Pradesh.

    2.

    "He who has approached the daughter of his father's sister, ......"

    BM> If your claim that this is Manu Smriti is true, then I wd agree that Sai Baba's parents marriage doesn't comply with Manu Smriti.

    Then I must tell you that *majority* of the marriages in rural Andhra Pradesh don't comply with the above law.
    (It is still followed that marriage with daughter of father's brother, and daughter of mother's sister are illegal. Marriage with daughter of father's sister, and daughter of mother's brother is legal and *very common*)

    Because this is widely and popularly followed across the state of Andhra Pradesh, I would not call this incest or abhorrent. Neither anyone from Andhra Pradesh.

    Your incest claim has 2 major holes.

    1. Your claim is about his parents but not Sai Baba himself. What role does SB has in this marriage?

    2. Any one from the state of Andhra Pradesh would misunderstand you as as an ignorant person trying to defame Sai Baba. All of your claims, some of which may hold water would be taken without much weight.

    This is a weak link in your chain of exposures. If you know any of product marketing you would not advertise a weak claim like this one. If your aim is to expose SB's attrocities, well, then you just do that. This is not part of his attrocities.

    - Beast Master

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 04 July, 2006 21:06  

  • HHSSananda,

    You have not responded to my post nor have you taken back your incest claim. I am concerned now.

    Again, per Andhra Pradesh marriage custom(applicable to Hindus. Muslim custom vary slightly);

    - It is *legal* for a man to marry daughter of his mother's brother or his father's sister.

    - It is *not legal* for a man to marry daughter of his mother's sister or his father's brother.

    These marriage rules are being followed by Hindus of Andhra Pradesh. I don't know of other states but I would expect this is same atleast for other south states.

    What you are doing is equating SB with 75 millions of innocent people.

    A word about Manu: I was borned and brought up in Andhra Pradesh. This custom is followed for generations. Between Manu and my generations of people, I would go with my people. I wd suggest either Manu Smriti be ammended or trashed.

    Do you want to call 75 million people incest or focus yourself exposing SB's deceptions?

    - Beast Master

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 05 July, 2006 03:30  

  • >>...Ananda,

    1.

    "..By the way, how about the fact that Venkamma (Baba's sister) married her uncle, Easwaramma's brother?.."

    BM> Again, this is a *normal* practice in rural Andra Pradesh. <<


    Sorry "Beastmaster", I have trouble accepting your words. Just in case you didn't know it, I am an Indian too. I find it incredibly hard to believe that uncle-niece marriage is "normal" in Andhra Pradesh.

    Even if it was so, does that mean that such things are good and desirable? It is not morally depraved to marry your own niece, but it is "normal" practice? That explains a lot.

    >> 2.

    "He who has approached the daughter of his father's sister, ......"

    BM> If your claim that this is Manu Smriti is true, then I wd agree that Sai Baba's parents marriage doesn't comply with Manu Smriti.

    Then I must tell you that *majority* of the marriages in rural Andhra Pradesh don't comply with the above law.
    (It is still followed that marriage with daughter of father's brother, and daughter of mother's sister are illegal. Marriage with daughter of father's sister, and daughter of mother's brother is legal and *very common*)

    Because this is widely and popularly followed across the state of Andhra Pradesh, I would not call this incest or abhorrent. Neither anyone from Andhra Pradesh. <<


    Again I have to question the logic of "everyone does it so it is normal". No matter how much you may try to explain away local customs, the simple fact of the matter is that such relations are incestuous. If every man in the whole of India married their sisters, cousins, mothers, grandmothers, aunts, aughters, nieces and so on, then the whole of India would be one big incestuous and inbred mess. It doesn't matter how many people do it and how "normal" it is, it is incestuous. Period.

    I also question how incestuous practices can be seen to be "normal". It is widely documented how mental and genetic deficiencies are caused by incest, I wonder how one can come to terms with that simply because "everyone does it". It is sick.

    >> Your incest claim has 2 major holes.

    1. Your claim is about his parents but not Sai Baba himself. What role does SB has in this marriage? <<


    That has been answered before: Sai Baba claims to be an avatar and consequently holds the decision of which family he would be born into. Of all the families in rural Andhra Pradesh (which are most likely incestuous according to you), he had to pick this one where his parents were cousins and meat-eaters. Consequently he is a tainted inbreed, not to mention the fact that his siblings were inbred too with his sister going off and marrying her mother's brother. Doesn't really sound like an auspicious and glorious start in life for an Avatar, does it?

    >> 2. Any one from the state of Andhra Pradesh would misunderstand you as as an ignorant person trying to defame Sai Baba. All of your claims, some of which may hold water would be taken without much weight. <<

    I'm glad to see that you're concerned with my level of credibility as you intimated in one of your past comments. I sincerely appreciate that. By the way, any thoughts on anything else I've written, after being overly concerned with this incest affair?

    In any case, you have to understand that no matter hoe "normal" these incestuos practices are in rural Andhra Pradesh, they are not normal throughout the rest of the world! Any average person on the street would either laugh his head off or look at you as if you were a crazy man if you tried to convince him that God has taken birth in a "normal" inbreed family. That's just the way it is.

    >> This is a weak link in your chain of exposures. If you know any of product marketing you would not advertise a weak claim like this one. If your aim is to expose SB's attrocities, well, then you just do that. This is not part of his attrocities.

    - Beast Master <<


    Fair enough. The point I made above about Sai Baba choosing his family only works under the assumption that he is an avatar. If Sai Baba is simply an ordinary conman or so then, yes, he cannot help being born into an inbreed and non-vegetarian family with parents who were cousins. I'll agree with you on that.

    By Blogger H.H. Swami Saiexposedananda, at 05 July, 2006 03:31  

  • >>HHSSananda,

    You have not responded to my post nor have you taken back your incest claim. I am concerned now. <<


    You have to understand that this blog is moderated for the comments function because it has been abused by Sai devotees. Consequently your post will have to be approved of by myself before it is published. You will see that your previous comment has been published and answered too.

    >>A word about Manu: I was borned and brought up in Andhra Pradesh. This custom is followed for generations. Between Manu and my generations of people, I would go with my people. I wd suggest either Manu Smriti be ammended or trashed.

    Do you want to call 75 million people incest or focus yourself exposing SB's deceptions? <<


    Regarding the trashing of Manu-smriti, this is nothing new. India is a secular state so there will be no legal repercussions of Manu's Law is not followed. However, there is such a thing as tradition and, while I respect the fact that you are an Indian and are in knowledge of these things, I cannot bring myself to accept that you would trash your own culture in the face of questionable practices by rural people.

    I still find it incredibly absurd that incest is justified as "normal" and so forth.

    In any case, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not interested in 75 million or so Andhra residents but I am interested in Sathya Sai Baba. The facts remain that Sathya Sai Baba was born into an incestuous family and is consequently an inbreed. This is not a good sign for someone who wants to make a claim at being an Avatar.

    I have not made any derogatory statements about indigenous Andhra Pradesh people and I am not at all interested in their quesitonable marriage practices (according to you), this blog is about Sathya Sai Baba and will remain about Sathya Sai Baba.

    By Blogger H.H. Swami Saiexposedananda, at 05 July, 2006 03:51  

  • HHSSananda,

    The main point of our disagreement boiled down to my following statements:

    Marriage between a man and his

    1. sister's daughter. Or,
    2. father's sister's daughter. Or,
    3. mother's brother's daughter.

    All the above 3 are customary among Hindus of Andhra Pradesh.

    Before you judge this custom, verify this to be a fact.

    Now, to call a relationship incest, it must be either forbidden by custom or illegal or a statutory crime.

    The abovementioned 3 marriages are neither forbidden by custom nor illegal nor statutory crime.

    You said it is not normal. I will come to that later. First, let us agree that it is not incest.

    - Beast Master

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 05 July, 2006 05:17  

  • I'm sorry, I can't agree. Incest is a morally abhorrent and sexually perverted practice. This is accepted by a large part of the world's population.

    By Blogger H.H. Swami Saiexposedananda, at 06 July, 2006 05:27  

  • SBE,

    I prefer to discuss this at Quicktopic site. Let's go over there.

    "I'm sorry, I can't agree. Incest is a morally abhorrent and sexually perverted practice. This is accepted by a large part of the world's population."

    You gotto be kidding. No doubt incest is perverted.

    However you don't understand what incest is.

    .BM

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 07 July, 2006 01:00  

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